my1

also for cases that have a clear culprit like these, maybe tell that the clocks may be off instead of just saying "could not establish connection" as the person at the PC running the agent usually knows totally nothing, and no way for the user with the client to do or even KNOW what's wrong unless there's another path to the PC (which kinda makes wayk useless if one needs another way in, when wayk sometimes more, sometimes less frequently (at least comparing it to the not too many times I actually need to connect) not only doesnt work but doesnt provide any details.

although the quick log export is a good thing and certainly helpful, this is something I need to add.

Today I had a problem connecting to a Wayk Agent on Windows (which luckily made it much easier to get logs) and apparently wayk really does not like a few seconds (in this case 48) of clock skew, and the biggest problem is that nobody knows the error until one sees the logs.

This was against the default Wayk Bastion, so den-side clock should be accurate enough.

This is majorly annoying as this is something really hard if not impossible to debug, maybe the wayk Agent should account for a little bit of clock skew, like 2 minutes in both directions.

2020-11-19 10:37:39 wayk_rust::utils [ERROR] - http signature error: signature is not yet valid (created: 1605778640, now: 1605778592)

Hi Marc,

the format of YYYY-MM-DD would be amazing!

i use it for databases mainly (YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS)

fully agree here. especially since it's a unique, you generally dont see a date format with dashes that isnt in that order, while with slashes it's a lot more ambiguous.

Hi My1

okay that is both good and sad as it obviously means that wayk would stay on the machine which isnt always nice.

The whole point is that it stays on the machine afterwards, which is why it *bootstraps* an installation, automatically changes the configuration and registers the machine. This is for cases where an MSP doesn't already manage the target machine with something like Microsoft Intune, otherwise they would use the .msi installer and custom msi options instead of a custom executable. It is not sad, it is like that on purpose.

okay, in management scenarios this makes sense, really sad you are axing the easy remote scenario.

and I have seen enough focus shifts with SaaS stuff to have an idea where this likely is going, I wont say it will definitely happen but I consider it highly likely that this would happen someday, and I wouldnt even be surprised if nobody knows yet.

I'm not sure what you are suggesting, but we are effectively moving *away* from a SaaS model, since Wayk Bastion is a self-hosted product (with the exception of the public Wayk Bastion). Many people are happy with the public Wayk Bastion, but it doesn't have the vast majority of features offered in the self-hosted Wayk Bastion product. We don't exclude the possibility of coming back with a better Wayk SaaS in the future, but it won't be the focus for the time being, as we put our energy on the self-hosted product.

I was using them as a comparison, because these are the most plentiful. the idea is just that when companies shift focus a bit, chances are usually that this shift becomes a hard shift later down the road, at least from what I have seen so far.

sure. while it doesnt affect me directly yet as I have a license my colleagues cant just also use wayk with the ppl on public den that way obviously (private den obviously not, now that corona mode is off) which was kinda helpful.

Can you please stick to what affects you, not what other people *might* find helpful? We have shown our colours: we target MSPs. While the product remains suitable for SMBs, we are definitely no longer targeting free, easy, ad hoc remote assistance like TeamViewer. We don't hide that fact, in fact, I've said it many times already. I know a free remote assistance tool that always works with a free service is great, but this is no longer our goal. Maybe take a look at AnyDesk, they are a good TeamViewer alternative, if this is what you are looking for.

just because it doesnt affect me directly as a person doesnt mean it doesnt affect my work environment. as I said colleagues are affected by this making it harder to justify using wayk in our company. also no idea what MSP means in this context, so cant judge on that. but we are (or at least currently mostly I am) not just quick-remoting but also managing computers of some customers, and what makes wayk nice is that it offers or rather offered both in one nice tool.

Also Anydesk is missing out quite a bit compared to wayk, for starters the idea of self hosting was what immediately pivoted us towards wayk, because it is obviously better to run on premise for sensitive things like remote controlling people's computers with important personal or company data.

also offering multi.connection for each user without having to pay 600 dollars a year for a triplepack (which is many units of overkill), or even worse, paying crazy amounts for each individual concurrent connection, which makes managing, checking on and/or updating multiple machines at once a real breeze with wayk (provided you have a large enough screen, XD)

Also if i remember correctly last time I tried anydesk it half-installed itself (autostart, shortcuts etc) on my linux laptop, which is not something I would see as overly trustworthy.

Wayk on the other hand before this change had no big problems other than needing a bit of polish but being a really well-made software to both quickhelp and manage computers.

I mean from a perspective of what wayk was designed and supposed to do, it was basically perfect, and fit perfectly into the niche of things we want. It did provide things other solutions didnt provide which made wayk unique, like with wayk changing into a more or less pure management solution, I am just gonna ask bluntly (becuase I have no idea): aren't there other solutions for that out there as well? what will make wayk stand out and be unique among them? You need to be unique to compete after all or people are just gonna go after the established names.

I think wayk has a lot of things that are better than most (like licensing unlimited connections to users without being overly expensive, or even the free plan back then which worked pretty solidly) but sadly it is still a diamond in the rough especially when updating automatically is anything except predictable and manually needs admin perms (and sometimes doesnt work either) or just unexplained connection problems, it sometimes feels more like a beta rather than an established remote solution that has been going on for years.

Read that again, you may find it can come off as a bit rude for many reasons.

why does calling wayk a diamond in the rough for being in many things better than the others but (at least as far as it feels to me) clearly needing some polish rude? When wayk needs to work but doesnt and especially when one cant get an explanation from the software easily or at all (including the issue of needing to involve people who basically have only ever used word in their life to get logs out) it isnt ideal. I am not saying wayk is bad in particular, but it needs polish.

especially regressions on updates are not really fun when the people who run the server side cant fix the issue themselves due to lacking the admin permissions (what we are supposed to use when stuff the needs admin happens)

sorry if I come off as rude, I am really not trying to be rude or anything, but maybe the combination of having asperger and english not being my native language makes it easier to come off as rude.

We are aware that this change of direction may not please everyone. However, your comment is mostly about the installer not being available in German. We do plan on bringing back the standalone executable,

nice

but mostly as a one-click installation package used to bootstrap the installation of the agent, such that you won't need to guide users through the process.

okay that is both good and sad as it obviously means that wayk would stay on the machine which isnt always nice.

As for the public Wayk Bastion, we didn't pull the plug on it

which I didnt accuse you of. I said "plan" and "in the long game".

The blog post clearly indicates a shift of focus considering headlines like

"Making Private Wayk Den Deployments the New Norm"

and I have seen enough focus shifts with SaaS stuff to have an idea where this likely is going, I wont say it will definitely happen but I consider it highly likely that this would happen someday, and I wouldnt even be surprised if nobody knows yet.

we simply made it mandatory to have a Wayk Client license in order to use it. I'm sorry you are unhappy with the change, and we would perfectly understand if you decide to switch to a different product.

sure. while it doesnt affect me directly yet as I have a license my colleagues cant just also use wayk with the ppl on public den that way obviously (private den obviously not, now that corona mode is off) which was kinda helpful.

I think wayk has a lot of things that are better than most (like licensing unlimited connections to users without being overly expensive, or even the free plan back then which worked pretty solidly) but sadly it is still a diamond in the rough especially when updating automatically is anything except predictable and manually needs admin perms (and sometimes doesnt work either) or just unexplained connection problems, it sometimes feels more like a beta rather than an established remote solution that has been going on for years.

one idea I might have to replace the free plan tho might be maybe a less expensive plan with less features to cover users with less needs and/or money to be able to use wayk but with a reduced feature set, here ) have the table from webarchive with the old free, a "mini" proposal and obviously the enterprise plan.

basically take all that was free add wayk den for obvious reasons and maybe depending on what numbers you can crunch, unattended too.

basically instead of just axing free offering a compromise might make it a lot less annoying to users or even companies where not everyone needs the full feature set.

also talking about all that den stuff, how about making an enroll-URI/URL/whatever so people can just click that in the browser while wayk is running and can hop into the den quicker without needing to re-create the installer or going through needing to pull out a spelling alphabet for the URLs (while not for den URLs, I have been through that a few times, it's NOT fun)

okay so chaos now question is what and how does it all go especially with the public bastion? as we often enough help people spontaneously who are not "managed" in a specific way so wouldnt have the wayk installed as server or whatever, and these would result in 2 problems:

1) apparently there is no exe download anymore so I would need to guide users through an english-language setup which obviously isnt ideal

2) if the plan is to ax the public bastion in the long game, it would get even more chaos, as I would need to guide the people through the english software to set the thing to german and then enter a specific url into the bastion field, or guide them through the english software to do that. as most people are either old, or bad in english or illiterate in technology or any combination of these, this gets very hard very fast, like even on the english software it's easy enough to go through the download, 6 digits and permission prompt thing.

all of this might get this rather crazy tbh.

Is this a newly installed machine? Have you connected to it in the past, or it's the first time that you try?

It's complicated. back when this thing was on iirc High Sierra or whatever, I did connect to it but ever since the update, and replacing the installation with the pkg I am not sure I connected to the machine, also the machine changed den numbers and stuff along the way so it's even crazier. so to this specific "instance" of Wayk, I am fairly sure that I have not connected successfully yet.

Regarding the script, I can try when I get to reach that person again.

but basically throw this into notepad and save as a .app file instead and then I could just throw this for example via email? (as long as apple doesnt get in the way)

I am not sure how easy I can grab the logs from the remote machine, but I am pretty sure I installed via pkg so that this thing is deep in enough, considering I have experience with the common issues when running the "simple" version on windows where the system can get in the way pretty easily. yes it is a mac. does the mac have a menu option for quick export of logs as well, as it is probably not too easy to manually guide the customer to it and doing it remotely (especially if these folders might be hard to reach using the finder and stuff), well is out considering the circumstances.

maybe add a den option for collecting logs (or if that's too sensitive, one could maybe make an option in the client to send logs to an email address specified in the den in the server, so the user will have to act but it's still easy)?

tbh, it kinda sux when wayk doesnt work, I mean nothing is perfect obviously but it is kinda hard to have a plan b for remote support, especially one with the very helpful featureset of way (most notably custom den)

while I can understand the notion that the client shouldnt know too much about the server, it's usually the client who has the person with the knowhow while it's often hard enough to get people to install/run wayk and stuff (especially with the added language barrier considering autolanguage is broken and especially elderly and/or technically challenged people here are usually not too awesome in english, and we have no shortage of these)

so I have tried all I immediately can so far.

Update wayk den

Wayk Den says Wayk Now Server is up to date

Client wayk is up to date (2020.2.6 on macOS 10.15.7 19H2)

I also tried the in-den webclient.

I always get an error in wayk and the wayk web says Error 400 (which from HTTP means bad request) and the wayk logs also say bad request.

the problem is obviously that debugging on the server is usually not too easy because you either have people that are technologically challenged and/or dont have the permissions themselves to do the things.

also the den itself for some reason thinks the session is running

But if it force pulls latest, why were my docker images then out of date, even after running that command?

okay, what's the point of the Update-WaykDen command then if it is not updating wayk den?

also something seems to have broke with the updates and stuff...

PS /etc/wayk-den> Start-WaykDen
docker rm den-mongo
Starting den-mongo
den-mongo successfully started
docker rm den-picky
Starting den-picky
den-picky successfully started
docker rm den-lucid
Starting den-lucid
den-lucid successfully started
docker rm den-server
Starting den-server
den-server successfully started
InvalidOperation: The script failed due to call depth overflow.

Edit: the inline code block really doesnt seem to work well on the dark theme.

okay that works, maybe there is something with the session. I guess I'll ax some cookies.

but there are some UA Parsing issues with Mac.

TypeError: Cannot read property 'toLowerCase' of undefined
    at t.getOsIcon (https://den.domain.tld/web/5.591e92a37b63d752a8b0.js:1:76922)
    at new t (https://den.domain.tld/web/5.591e92a37b63d752a8b0.js:1:76837)
    at e.t.fromMachine (https://den.domain.tld/web/5.591e92a37b63d752a8b0.js:1:198468)
    at e.t (https://den.domain.tld/web/5.591e92a37b63d752a8b0.js:1:198369)
    at new e (https://den.domain.tld/web/5.591e92a37b63d752a8b0.js:1:198877)
    at https://den.domain.tld/web/5.591e92a37b63d752a8b0.js:1:208912
    at Array.map (<anonymous>)
    at e.project (https://den.domain.tld/web/5.591e92a37b63d752a8b0.js:1:208888)
    at e._next (https://den.domain.tld/web/main.677a2a484c1c4c4e03d2.js:1:399876)
    at e.next (https://den.domain.tld/web/main.677a2a484c1c4c4e03d2.js:1:738668)

I went ahead and pulled some things with the browser debugger for you.

CONTAINER ID IMAGE COMMAND CREATED STATUS PORTS NAMES

b4049480368c traefik:1.7 "/traefik --file --c…" 4 hours ago Up 4 hours 80/tcp, 0.0.0.0:4000->4000/tcp den-traefik

9e07db9feafb devolutions/den-server:2.4.0-buster "./den-server -l inf…" 4 hours ago Up 4 hours (healthy) 443/tcp, 4491/tcp, 10255/tcp den-server

21098b6a7544 devolutions/den-lucid:3.7.2-buster "./lucid" 4 hours ago Up 4 hours (healthy) 4242/tcp den-lucid

afd73978cd2e devolutions/picky:4.5.0-buster "./picky-server" 4 hours ago Up 4 hours 12345/tcp den-picky

3386a1bb9cb1 mongo:4.2-bionic "docker-entrypoint.s…" 4 hours ago Up 4 hours 27017/tcp den-mongo

a531e27cb76e devolutions/devolutions-jet:0.11.0-buster "./devolutions-jet -…" 4 hours ago Up 4 hours 0.0.0.0:7000->7000/tcp, 0.0.0.0:8080->8080/tcp, 0.0.0.0:10256->10256/tcp devolutions-jet

all seems up.

Server is an Ubuntu Server 20.04

(also I didnt expect being called by my real name in forums, lol)

TypeError: Cannot set property 'subscriptions' of null

at e.project (https://den.domain.tld/web/main.677a2a484c1c4c4e03d2.js:1:1580434)

at e._next (https://den.domain.tld/web/main.677a2a484c1c4c4e03d2.js:1:74116)

at e.next (https://den.domain.tld/web/main.677a2a484c1c4c4e03d2.js:1:738668)

at e.notifyNext (https://den.domain.tld/web/main.677a2a484c1c4c4e03d2.js:1:74853)

at e._next (https://den.domain.tld/web/main.677a2a484c1c4c4e03d2.js:1:1701447)

at e.next (https://den.domain.tld/web/main.677a2a484c1c4c4e03d2.js:1:738668)

at e.notifyNext (https://den.domain.tld/web/main.677a2a484c1c4c4e03d2.js:1:1433740)

at e._next (https://den.domain.tld/web/main.677a2a484c1c4c4e03d2.js:1:1701447)

at e.next (https://den.domain.tld/web/main.677a2a484c1c4c4e03d2.js:1:738668)

at e._next (https://den.domain.tld/web/main.677a2a484c1c4c4e03d2.js:1:738997)

when trying to open the web interface.

I ran the update commands for Waykden and jet and the following versions came out.

library/mongo:4.2-bionic

devolutions/picky:4.5.0-buster

devolutions/den-lucid:3.7.2-buster

devolutions/den-server:2.4.0-buster

library/traefik:1.7

devolutions/devolutions-jet:0.11.0-buster

cool to know, also just by the way the signature doesnt look too good in dark mode especially the name being black on dark grey.

yesterday I also had some mouse weirdness. I connected from a windows 8.1 to a WIndows 10 (no idea which one it was) and a Win Server 2019 1809.

in both cases sending ctrl+alt+del via the menu, then resolved the issue, and you could just click cancel on the screen that appears.

so to make sure I have the PKG version of the mac wayk installed, I removed the current wayk version by draggin it into the trash bin from the application folder, then deleting it from there (not exactly sure if that is proper procedure but I read that that's how you remove mac applications that dont have an x in launchpad) and then downloading the pkg and going through the setup process. after that I noticed that settings were apparently kept, but branding was weird. the banner color and strings were apparently as in the branding however the images were default.

I tried so far the following, unsuccessfully.

• changing the den to default and then back (color and strings changed along, pictures didnt)

• deleting the branding zip to force a re-download.

that sounds cool. then I'll go forward with the pkg. maybe if you go out with the annouce and all explain the difference on the DL page maybe since it isnt obvious.

do you need the service for anything else on mac? (after all on Windows the unattended mode is needed for UAC and accessing elevated windows.)

but I would guess the pkg is better for a permanent install.

so I am setting up a customer iMac now and wayk now gives a choice for the mac download of pkg and dmg, what are the big differences and which should I take?

cool that unixtime is used is very nice. I use it myself in programming all the time since it's very easy to use in PHP and stuff.

In other words, don't expect it to work

My problem was never that it didnt work. but rather that it didnt properly fail, but give the appearance that it worked until a minute or 2 later when you can see in the den that the registration didnt apply

.

like if the time is off, you might wanna tell the user or whatever

okay that's nice to know.

although I have to admit that it's a little weird that it can auto update without UAC but when you get asked to do so you have to do UAC

the bug also explains a lot.

all the machines I install run unattended service because of the need to get into UAC so when that handles updates by itself that's nice.

3) This is an issue we just fixed with the Wayk Now 2020.2.2 (released a few minutes ago)

how will machines that got 2.1 interact? do they regain what they had in 2.0 or do they keep what they have in 2.1 or do they get something entirely new.

so apparently if the PC's clock is behind the Den even by as little as 10 minutes, a registration of a PC goes through without any errors but if you OK out the settings and go back in, you'll find out that the registration has in fact not been properly applied.

the certificate hasnt been valid from the viewpoint of the computer, yes but it maybe should error out appropriately to tell the user that the time may be off. also setting the not before a little before the actual issuance or having some other kind of failsafe will help when DST strikes back in the end of October (where machines literally go back in local time by an hour, where ideally if properly verifing via UTC times nothing should happen, but I have seen a lot in software.)

Wayk now 2020.2.1

Wayk Den Software information

PS Version

7.0.3

Cmdlet Version

2020.2.2

Docker Version

19.03.12

Docker images

Den Server Image

devolutions/den-server:2.6.0-buster

Den Picky Image

devolutions/picky:4.5.0-buster

Den Lucid Image

devolutions/den-lucid:3.7.2-buster

Traefik Image

library/traefik:1.7

Mongo Image

library/mongo:4.2-bionic

Server information

Os Version Info

Linux Ubuntu 20.04 LTS

Den Version

3

these are on 2 freshly set up W10 PCs so aside from stuff microsoft brought along there's basically nothing to interfere.

when I installed 2020.2.0 about an hour ago from writing this (as that was what I had) it asked upon launch whether I want to update wayk, I said yes, let the UAC do its thing and after a bit the windows installer popup came briefly, went away and then wayk started again as 2020.2.0.

are there any installer logs I can give out to help?

Edit it gets crazier:

apparently 4 machines (of which 3 are registered) got the update to 2020.2.1 (also from 2020.2.0), with the same 3 registered ones not supposed to have admin permissions (and in fact have random-ish admin passwords), so no one should have randomly got in these 3, but all 4 of them apparently got a new ID, and are now listed twice (the registered ones in registered and unregistered once each, and the unregistered once just appearing once more in that list with the same name.

this leads to 2 problems:

1) the 53 Laptops in that group are getting doubled up leading to quite a bit of chaos

2) as the new IDs are obviously unregistered, the Laptops lose their groupings, which cannot be re-assigned, until I can get hand to them and go through registration again.

so in the end there are 3 questions:

1) why did the Update fail on the 2 Machines I have at hand

2) how did an update happen on 3 machines that shouldnt have happened (as the update dialog does spawn UAC

3) what happened with the IDs? new certs in some way?

Maybe this is a "Unattended Access" feature, but I am using Wayk Now on MacOS and do not see it as an option. Is this available in unattended access mode on Windows? If not it should be an option.

when using unattended onto windows at least you can iirc set up wayk to open a virtual session so all happens in behind.

maybe unattended onto mac when it comes will have that too.

although obviously the question for me is how does it help the people you work with when you black out their screen, as in they basically being unable to do anything.

like the people you help should normally maybe see what happens on their PCs, and if you need some things the customer shouldnt see you open it locally on your side.

at the very least if you try to connect to someone and then want to blackout there screen there should imo be a very obvious permission prompt and a clear way to get the other one out again.